Curse

Thom Bangalter · Dec 10, 2006, 03:50 AM // 03:50

/agreed on increasing the recharge to 6. The simple fact that it's recharge is shorter than draw conditions's really bothers me.

I think the elite status perfectly fits the energy cost and skill description, I just can't keep up with draws on it...anything more than 5 energy and it starts to become undesirable to tie up your elite with it. You have to keep in mind that on an ele, you're sacrificing ether prodigy for it.

The fact that you can use it on a mesmer is fine by me, as that's the whole point of having secondaries. I'd say decrease the blind duration a little bit, because then it discourages spamming it, and spamming blind makes the game a little too easy imo, especially with pressure being harder and harder to run effectively (though the paragon nerf changed that a little).

RandomEngy · Dec 10, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Reaper's Mark should be fixed. 5 energy 30 seconds 5 degen, 1s cast (and then tons of energy if they die) is just a little silly. Changing to 10 energy I think might do it.

Quote:

Searing Flames is not really that overpowered, just good at farming bad teams.
Suggestion: 2s recharge -> 3s recharge

Rampage as One, again, not really that overpowered. It puts Thumpers back up in the list of melee varieties that are viable in GvG, which I think is no bad thing.
Suggestion: 25% attack speed.

Spiritual Pain probably needs a small hit on damage to stop it being so nuts.
Suggestion: AoE Damage 15...63 -> 15...53

Agreed on these as well. And even though you don't see it that much anymore, Mending Refrain is still a little too good in situations where splitting isn't required (HA). I'm thinking it should cap out at 3 regen instead of 4.

*lemming* · Dec 10, 2006, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

Crushing Blow - make core...wtf

Rep wins the thread.

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 10, 2006, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Less flames.

Etrik · Dec 10, 2006, 11:41 AM // 11:41

This is getting stressful.

By 'only fanbois will be bothered' I meant only low-tier players, who can only run that build/similar builds (iway/vimway back in the day, anyone?) will cry when it's nerfed. Good players will not suffer if SF does 1/3 less damage.

It won't be cheap when it costs ten energy any more. Also, it's an elementalist skill. So let's think of the effect it will have on elementalist primaries using it, shall we?

And what I meant by that comparison is that it wouldn't be worthy of being elite if the cost got upped, because it wouldn't even be in the same zip code as EProd+HP+Ext+BFlash any more. It's good now. Upping the cost and/or recharge will just turn it into elite BFlash + Lightning Strike. Oh yay!

And I meant that I am baffled by the lack of logic some people proudly display.

Seriously now.

Bankai · Dec 10, 2006, 11:55 AM // 11:55

I don't agree with the nerf on steady stance, I believe it was actually intended that way.

I like the fixing of Grenth by it only being >50.

I agree with 1 extra second on SF, and with a recharge of 6 on Surge.

I think they need to buff EF just a little, so it's actually viable again. It's a new ether renewal.

Etrik · Dec 10, 2006, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Ether Renewal is still ownage. You can fill your bar from 0 to 90 in those 7 seconds

And I don't know about Grenth being only ^50. I'd rather it be +2e for attack skills (or all skills). Wouldn't that be better?

Symbol · Dec 10, 2006, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote:

By 'only fanbois will be bothered' I meant only low-tier players, who can only run that build/similar builds (iway/vimway back in the day, anyone?) will cry when it's nerfed. Good players will not suffer if SF does 1/3 less damage.

Good players will stop using it-because the whole point is to mash that SF button as hard and as often as possible when it's up. Half your bar is devoted just to supporting that expenditure, of course you want to spam it.

Quote:

It won't be cheap when it costs ten energy any more. Also, it's an elementalist skill. So let's think of the effect it will have on elementalist primaries using it, shall we?

That's exactly why I don't want it to be changed to 10E. Is it so difficult for you to actually read what I post before responding?

Quote:

And what I meant by that comparison is that it wouldn't be worthy of being elite if the cost got upped, because it wouldn't even be in the same zip code as EProd+HP+Ext+BFlash any more. It's good now. Upping the cost and/or recharge will just turn it into elite BFlash + Lightning Strike. Oh yay!

If it needs a change, maybe changing the recharge to 5 seconds. Other than that I think its fine.

Lorekeeper · Dec 10, 2006, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Etrik --> You first post in this thread consisted of you criticising someone elses propositions.

Ok so well you seem to have many thoughts on the skills we are talking about. How about you suggest some changes? Thats the whole point of this thread... i didnt want this thread to be an opportunity for people to jump on other peoples suggestions without suggesting their own.

Please?

Just one comment i need to make... about what makes skills 'Elite'. I find it very difficult to absorb any arguments which say "but it wouldnt be elite anymore!" There are MANY elite skills in the game which some people might say arent deserved of "elite" status. There is no established list of requirements which justify a skill's "elite" status so arguing about it is just not going to get us anywhere. There are reasons beyond our knowledge and we just have to make do with the content that is released.

Bsurge needs tweaking. Anyone who disagrees please say so and justify why. If you agree it needs tweaking... make a suggestion how.

lets be constructive.

Etrik · Dec 10, 2006, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

Good players will stop using it-because the whole point is to mash that SF button as hard and as often as possible when it's up. Half your bar is devoted just to supporting that expenditure, of course you want to spam it.

Good players don't usually run SF

Sandstorm warder anyways owns SF..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

That's exactly why I don't want it to be changed to 10E. Is it so difficult for you to actually read what I post before responding?

I did. I musta gotten messed up. Why are we argueing then, if we agree? *mumbles something and goes to sleep*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

If it needs a change, maybe changing the recharge to 5 seconds. Other than that I think its fine.

QFT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Etrik --> You first post in this thread consisted of you criticising someone elses propositions.

Ok so well you seem to have many thoughts on the skills we are talking about. How about you suggest some changes? Thats the whole point of this thread... i didnt want this thread to be an opportunity for people to jump on other peoples suggestions without suggesting their own.

Please?

I did o.O. I agreed with some and disagreed with others (like Grenth ^50 vs +2e for skills). Agreeing with something means I suggest that too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Just one comment i need to make... about what makes skills 'Elite'. I find it very difficult to absorb any arguments which say "but it wouldnt be elite anymore!" There are MANY elite skills in the game which some people might say arent deserved of "elite" status. There is no established list of requirements which justify a skill's "elite" status so arguing about it is just not going to get us anywhere. There are reasons beyond our knowledge and we just have to make do with the content that is released.

Elite = Eviscerate, Decapitate, Glimmer of Light, Healer's Boon, RC, EProd, etc. Elite = Elite that actually sees play in the meta.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Bsurge needs tweaking. Anyone who disagrees please say so and justify why. If you agree it needs tweaking... make a suggestion how.

lets be constructive.

I did. As did Symbol, whom I can't figure out why I was arguing with. And constructive criticms can sometimes be harsh. Especially if the person criticizing is in a bad mood/tired (<-- that's me! - the tired part).

Edit: proof of how tired I am is that I had to delete entire sentences while typing this reply way too many times. I do appologize if I sound like a total douche and/or retard. It's the lack of caffeine.

You know I <3 you all. Well, most of you.

Symbol · Dec 10, 2006, 12:50 PM // 12:50

My list of nerfs:

Rampage as One:
Ends when pet dies.

Spiritual Pain:
Reduce damage by 10. The instant recharge on hitting a spirit is fine.

Blinding Surge:
Increase recharge to 5s

Avatar of Grenth:
-1E every time an enchantment is removed.

That's pretty much it, actually.

brian3 · Dec 10, 2006, 01:16 PM // 13:16

why is it when we get new moves u all want them weakened in 1 way or another, jesus we can't have every skill balenced out to be equal, i see no problem with the skill's the way they are, just cause they keep killin u means u should change your tastic in fightin them

Lord Mendes · Dec 10, 2006, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian3

why is it when we get new moves u all want them weakened in 1 way or another, jesus we can't have every skill balenced out to be equal, i see no problem with the skill's the way they are, just cause they keep killin u means u should change your tastic in fightin them

hmm... what?
thanks for the laugh.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 10, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian3

why is it when we get new moves u all want them weakened in 1 way or another, jesus we can't have every skill balenced out to be equal, i see no problem with the skill's the way they are, just cause they keep killin u means u should change your tastic in fightin them

That doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Guild Wars PvP is based around balance. I hate to sound flameish, but if you don't like that you should play another game.

I Brother Bloood I · Dec 10, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Searing Flames - Causes Exauhstion

Blinding Surge - 5-7 sec recharge

Ether Renewal - I want longer duration!

Ava of Grenth - Lose energy when removes enchant

Hariers Grasp - Agreed on melee only

Crushing Blow - agreed on core

Barberous Slice - It costs more adren than sever already drop the stance condition and it will see some use.

Backbreaker - I always wanted to see this cause weakness but w/e.

Magehunters Smash - Drop enchant conditional and it will be what hammers always needed non conditional non lose all adren knockdown. Also make so it cant be blocked or evaded vs enchanted enemies.

Ranger Skills In General - Buff please

Natural Stride - 1-10 sec

Glimmer - 1 sec recharge

Healer's Covenant - 1...3...4 nrg (i know it doesnt get used but i like it with ra and pve)

Renew Life - Radar range heal

Mending Touch - 5-7 sec recharge (i think its a little to fast)

Spoil Victor - Lower duration to... something...

Jagged Bones - Something so death nova cant be used with it.

Reaper's Mark - Lower Duration

Simple Thievery - Steals Elite

Spiritual Pain - ...dunno

Sin shadow steps - Lower recharge of some to 30 sec

Shadow of Haste - Agreed on crit attribute

Rits in general - need another buff

Incoming - put back down to 5 nrg

Energizing - 1...2 nrg

hyro yamaguchi · Dec 10, 2006, 05:02 PM // 17:02

What about buffing skills and not just torching the good ones down?

And giving SF exhaustion will make it the worst elite ingame,.

I Brother Bloood I · Dec 10, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyro yamaguchi

What about buffing skills and not just torching the good ones down?

I suggested some buffs but some are really in need of nerfing like ava of grenth.

I dunno but i think exhaustion would just keep it from being spammed.

Edit - I dont think u can get any worse then balthazaars pendulum though agreed?

TheOneMephisto · Dec 10, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Brother Bloood I

Searing Flames - Causes Exauhstion

That's rediculous. There is nothing wrong with SF IMO, maybe a slight recharge nerf at most. It's a good build, and a super-fragile build for an ele to actually do some damage. I don't think that is that horrible.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 10, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Searing Flames causing exhaustion is just stupid. In fact, I don't think it deserves a nerf at all.

I Brother Bloood I · Dec 10, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Edit - Actually forget nerfing searing i just ran it for some fun and its perfectly fine as it is.